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Which is better: UM or MSU?

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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby Mud Bug » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:04 am

Alleged Chinese student gang at MSU focus of trial

MASON – A Michigan State University student from China beaten severely last year at a karaoke bar was attacked by members of a Chinese gang, prosecutors said Monday.

That gang, Ingham County Assistant Prosecutor Kimberly Hesse said during opening statements in the trial of two men charged in the attack, is made up of Chinese students at MSU.

"They use fear, intimidation and physical violence to gain notoriety among the Asian community on Michigan State's campus," Hesse said. They are called "Chengguan," she said, named after a notorious municipal police force in China.


Chris Bergstrom, the attorney for one of the two men charged, 24-year-old Meng Long Li, said his client is not a member of a Chinese gang.

"There are no gangs," Bergstrom said during his opening statements. In fact, he said, an MSU official will testify and confirm that.

Just because friends get together and "call themselves something," doesn't make it a gang, he said. Bergstrom also said his client, now an MSU graduate with bachelor's degrees in computer science and actuarial science, had been wrongly identified as the attacker.

Li and 21-year-old Shan Gao, a current student, are standing trial on multiple assault charges including assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than murder.

The trial is in Ingham County Circuit Court before Judge William Collette. Gao's attorney, Patrick Crowley, did not make an opening statement.

The incident happened the night of the Chinese New Year, Jan. 31, 2014, at the karaoke bar at 2800 East Grand River Avenue in Meridian Township.

As the number of Chinese students at MSU has grown dramatically — there were more than 4,400 in the fall of 2013 — so have the number of businesses that cater to them. The bar is one of two that offers both karaoke and pool tables, according to statements made in court.

The student who was attacked testified that Meng Long Li and Gao were among a group of several people he encountered that night at the bar. It features several small, private karaoke rooms that can be reserved for groups.

Hesse called Meng Long Li "an enforcer" in the gang. Shan Gao, she said, is "a lower-level middleman."

The victim, mostly speaking through an interpreter, said Meng Long Li had attacked him two months earlier at a different local karaoke club. In that incident, he said one of his friends was beaten severely.

He said Meng Long Li recognized him, and said, "Do you recall last time?"

He fled into one of the private rooms and several people, including Meng Long Li, followed.

The victim said his girlfriend was shoved to the floor. Meng Long Li, he testified, kicked him and then beat him repeatedly with a plastic water pitcher. He estimated he was struck 20 times. The pitcher's handle broke off. He required 11 stitches in his head.

"The only sound I could hear," he said through the interpreter, "was the pitcher banging on my head."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m ... /22391619/


Good Heavens. Things have changed in EL since my tenure there ended, which was before any of you heard a song by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, or Alice in Chains.

The only gang I recall was the gaggle of cackling girls on my sister floor in the dorm. Their poofy heads couldn't hold an original thought, much less inflict an ounce of pain on anyone.

And there definitely weren't 4,400 Chinese students on campus in those days.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:31 pm

A few impressions here. First, there have long been a pile of Chinese nationals at US universities. The granting of student visas was and has been a deliberate US foreign policy, the intent of which is to socialize the "reds" into the joys of American lifestyle. The predatory ways of the Chinese Communist party aside, I'd say that the policy has borne fruit when I read about how the intended escape destination for so many of China's nouveau riche is the US should the shit hit the fan and the Chicoms return to the ways of Mao.

A second thought is that so many of the "computer science and actuarial science" Chinese crowd are not very intimidating in the physical sense. Remember that online calculator where you lay in your size and skills and they tell you how many five-year olds you could beat in a fight? That site come to mind when I think about the guys that I know and work with in my field. If a bunch of those guys came at the average "frank", with a plastic water pitcher or not, they'd get broken up as though they were made of tinkertoys.

Third, are these guys in the karaoke bar actually drinking? The violence suggests that they are, but experience tells me that most if any are not. A number of Chinese friends and colleagues have related that alcohol simply does not agree with them. I've read that there's a gene that allows one to imbibe and enjoy, but this gene is uncommon in parts of Asia and so as with one who is lactose intolerant they just don't dare to do it. Story: one pal (call him Tinkertoy Li) cannot tolerate alcohol at all. He gets one drink and must immediately go to bed because it hits him like a roofie. He will have an arguement with his wife and she'll say something (in Chinese, I suspect) along the lines of "alright shithead, that's it" and she'll pour him a small glass of wine from the one bottle in their medicinal stash. Dutifully he will down it and, effectively, is sent to bed for having the temerity to quarrel with the boss.

Lastly, I don't doubt that the strong are preying upon the weak in this community. Among recent arrivals in this country it seems that the prejudices and hatreds of the old country come to the new. Who knows what could be at the heart of this but that it exists isn't a surprise.

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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby vlad the impaler » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:52 pm

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:Third, are these guys in the karaoke bar actually drinking? The violence suggests that they are, but experience tells me that most if any are not. A number of Chinese friends and colleagues have related that alcohol simply does not agree with them. I've read that there's a gene that allows one to imbibe and enjoy, but this gene is uncommon in parts of Asia and so as with one who is lactose intolerant they just don't dare to do it. Story: one pal (call him Tinkertoy Li) cannot tolerate alcohol at all. He gets one drink and must immediately go to bed because it hits him like a roofie. He will have an arguement with his wife and she'll say something (in Chinese, I suspect) along the lines of "alright shithead, that's it" and she'll pour him a small glass of wine from the one bottle in their medicinal stash. Dutifully he will down it and, effectively, is sent to bed for having the temerity to quarrel with the boss.


I've read there is a digestive enzyme present in those with European heritage, which evolved from generations of drinking fermented honey, potato vodka, beir, and wine. Not that there aren't plenty of fair-skinned people who have problems with alcohol- far from it- but the absence of this enzyme is the reason why certain non-Euro ethnicities are seemingly more prone to the addictive and negative effects. Hence the many "dry" Yupik eskimo villages in Alaska.

That said, there are notable exceptions in Asia. There's a show called Booze Traveler and one episode had the host drinking fermented goat milk with the Gurkhas, or the warrior tribesmen of Nepal. Chugging that swill has been a cultural stalwart of the Gurkhas for eons so presumably they've got the mutated enzyme as well.

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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby jmy » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:24 pm

It's something with enzymes, and not all Asians tread lightly around alcohol. Koreans seem particularly fond of drink. I was only there for a visit, but, wow, do they get shitfaced, and they seem to have a fermenting culture (rice wine, soy booze).

It's pretty common to see flushed faced, middle-aged men barfing all over the street and frothing at the mouth on subways. Or they're asleep in a puddle of beer at the bar. Or they've pissed their pants and are lying in a sewage-filled bathroom where everyone else has barfed and pissed their pants and overflowed the toilets. And it goes on until 4 or 5 am. I chalked it up to a general intolerance of alcohol.

It's always middle-aged and older men acting like they're at a frat party. Something about respect.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby The Conscience » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:36 pm

jmy wrote:It's something with enzymes, and not all Asians tread lightly around alcohol. Koreans seem particularly fond of drink. I was only there for a visit, but, wow, do they get shitfaced, and they seem to have a fermenting culture (rice wine, soy booze).

It's pretty common to see flushed faced, middle-aged men barfing all over the street and frothing at the mouth on subways. Or they're asleep in a puddle of beer at the bar. Or they've pissed their pants and are lying in a sewage-filled bathroom where everyone else has barfed and pissed their pants and overflowed the toilets. And it goes on until 4 or 5 am. I chalked it up to a general intolerance of alcohol.

It's always middle-aged and older men acting like they're at a frat party. Something about respect.


I've never been to Korea, and from what you describe, maybe that's a good thing.

That middle age men are acting that way must reflect an unspoken entitlement, as in, "Look at me get shitfaced. I've earned it."

I have had several associations with Koreans, both Americanized and visitors. They do hold status sacred... it's very common to be presented with a business card right off the bat proudly proclaiming title (business owner being at the top of the hierarchy).

And they hold almost no regard for any one in an "acting" position, like "Acting Senior Account Manager" or "Acting Vice President of Development." You're better off being a bonafide street sweeper than an "acting" mucktamuck.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby guest » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:39 pm

I've heard about that missing alcohol processing gene being a problem with Native Americans. It's not just the crushing poverty of the reservation that makes for frightening levels of alcoholism. Apparently there's a physiologic factor at play.

Regarding the Korean respect for status thing mentioned above, I was reading one of those Malcolm Gladwell books, or something along the same lines, where he explains why things are how they are and how it's not what you think. The chapter was about why planes crash and he was explaining why a Korean Air Lines jet went down. Apparently airports have radio beacons and pilots head for the beacon to land, but at one particular airport the beacon is in a mountain. You don't aim for that signal, and pilots know this. So the Korean pilot was doing it wrong and the copilot knew it. If it was a western crew, the copilot would say "motherfucker, you're heading for a mountain!!!" and he'd grab the stick, but in Korean culture that would be disrespectful and the copilot held his tongue and deferred to the judgement of his superior. Everybody died.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby D-Day » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:45 pm

The Conscience wrote:
jmy wrote:It's something with enzymes, and not all Asians tread lightly around alcohol. Koreans seem particularly fond of drink. I was only there for a visit, but, wow, do they get shitfaced, and they seem to have a fermenting culture (rice wine, soy booze).

It's pretty common to see flushed faced, middle-aged men barfing all over the street and frothing at the mouth on subways. Or they're asleep in a puddle of beer at the bar. Or they've pissed their pants and are lying in a sewage-filled bathroom where everyone else has barfed and pissed their pants and overflowed the toilets. And it goes on until 4 or 5 am. I chalked it up to a general intolerance of alcohol.

It's always middle-aged and older men acting like they're at a frat party. Something about respect.


I've never been to Korea, and from what you describe, maybe that's a good thing.

That middle age men are acting that way must reflect an unspoken entitlement, as in, "Look at me get shitfaced. I've earned it."

I have had several associations with Koreans, both Americanized and visitors. They do hold status sacred... it's very common to be presented with a business card right off the bat proudly proclaiming title (business owner being at the top of the hierarchy).

And they hold almost no regard for any one in an "acting" position, like "Acting Senior Account Manager" or "Acting Vice President of Development." You're better off being a bonafide street sweeper than an "acting" mucktamuck.


I was stationed in Korea for a year (Chunchon -- 60 miles NE of Seoul) and it's nice to see that things have not changed. And as far as a fermenting culture, I have one word for you.

Soju.

That shit is to die for and it's an excellent mixer. 20 years after returning from Chunchon I had never seen it, Until I went on a recon across the DMZ (Kentucky) and every store has it.......

Here's how we drank it.

1 12 oz bottle of soju
1 16 oz bottle of Fanta
1 tablespoon of orange yogurt

Tastes just like a fucking Dreamsicle.......and the cost (in 1986 dollars) was less than $0.65 for a batch.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby thunderstruck » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:09 pm

D-Day wrote:
The Conscience wrote:
jmy wrote:It's something with enzymes, and not all Asians tread lightly around alcohol. Koreans seem particularly fond of drink. I was only there for a visit, but, wow, do they get shitfaced, and they seem to have a fermenting culture (rice wine, soy booze).

It's pretty common to see flushed faced, middle-aged men barfing all over the street and frothing at the mouth on subways. Or they're asleep in a puddle of beer at the bar. Or they've pissed their pants and are lying in a sewage-filled bathroom where everyone else has barfed and pissed their pants and overflowed the toilets. And it goes on until 4 or 5 am. I chalked it up to a general intolerance of alcohol.

It's always middle-aged and older men acting like they're at a frat party. Something about respect.


I've never been to Korea, and from what you describe, maybe that's a good thing.

That middle age men are acting that way must reflect an unspoken entitlement, as in, "Look at me get shitfaced. I've earned it."

I have had several associations with Koreans, both Americanized and visitors. They do hold status sacred... it's very common to be presented with a business card right off the bat proudly proclaiming title (business owner being at the top of the hierarchy).

And they hold almost no regard for any one in an "acting" position, like "Acting Senior Account Manager" or "Acting Vice President of Development." You're better off being a bonafide street sweeper than an "acting" mucktamuck.


I was stationed in Korea for a year (Chunchon -- 60 miles NE of Seoul) and it's nice to see that things have not changed. And as far as a fermenting culture, I have one word for you.

Soju.

That shit is to die for and it's an excellent mixer. 20 years after returning from Chunchon I had never seen it, Until I went on a recon across the DMZ (Kentucky) and every store has it.......

Here's how we drank it.

1 12 oz bottle of soju
1 16 oz bottle of Fanta
1 tablespoon of orange yogurt

Tastes just like a fucking Dreamsicle.......and the cost (in 1986 dollars) was less than $0.65 for a batch.

The business card dance upon meeting Koreans is so they can understand the hierarchy and how everyone fits. They are very, very uncomfortable with Westerners that they can't properly assess. And they need to have parallel rank, if their Managing Director is coming to a meeting, you better have your Managing Director there too, or at least someone you can fool them into believing is a Managing Director. Someone higher or lower makes things uncomfortable and ineffective.

I've done some soju-slamming and karoke singing with them and while some of them can drink, they were pretty clever about tag-teaming us in a drinking session. They politely poured a shot for themselves and for you to drink, repeated a few times, then excused themselves and another coworker slid in next to you and treated you to another three or four shots. Repeat. They did this so effectively to our team that it had to be choreographed.

They really loosened up after a few drinks. Its the one time they would let down the strict hierarchy and socialize with those above and below them. There was one Korean guy who didn't drink. I didn't realize this until after a few of these outings. He would get as silly as the rest of the actual drunks, but it was just a release. He wasn't really faking, just going along with the moment. Nice people for the most part, but the cultural details really mattered, especially with the ones who hadn't spent much time in the West.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby D-Day » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:43 pm

thunderstruck wrote:
D-Day wrote:
The Conscience wrote:
jmy wrote:It's something with enzymes, and not all Asians tread lightly around alcohol. Koreans seem particularly fond of drink. I was only there for a visit, but, wow, do they get shitfaced, and they seem to have a fermenting culture (rice wine, soy booze).

It's pretty common to see flushed faced, middle-aged men barfing all over the street and frothing at the mouth on subways. Or they're asleep in a puddle of beer at the bar. Or they've pissed their pants and are lying in a sewage-filled bathroom where everyone else has barfed and pissed their pants and overflowed the toilets. And it goes on until 4 or 5 am. I chalked it up to a general intolerance of alcohol.

It's always middle-aged and older men acting like they're at a frat party. Something about respect.


I've never been to Korea, and from what you describe, maybe that's a good thing.

That middle age men are acting that way must reflect an unspoken entitlement, as in, "Look at me get shitfaced. I've earned it."

I have had several associations with Koreans, both Americanized and visitors. They do hold status sacred... it's very common to be presented with a business card right off the bat proudly proclaiming title (business owner being at the top of the hierarchy).

And they hold almost no regard for any one in an "acting" position, like "Acting Senior Account Manager" or "Acting Vice President of Development." You're better off being a bonafide street sweeper than an "acting" mucktamuck.


I was stationed in Korea for a year (Chunchon -- 60 miles NE of Seoul) and it's nice to see that things have not changed. And as far as a fermenting culture, I have one word for you.

Soju.

That shit is to die for and it's an excellent mixer. 20 years after returning from Chunchon I had never seen it, Until I went on a recon across the DMZ (Kentucky) and every store has it.......

Here's how we drank it.

1 12 oz bottle of soju
1 16 oz bottle of Fanta
1 tablespoon of orange yogurt

Tastes just like a fucking Dreamsicle.......and the cost (in 1986 dollars) was less than $0.65 for a batch.

The business card dance upon meeting Koreans is so they can understand the hierarchy and how everyone fits. They are very, very uncomfortable with Westerners that they can't properly assess. And they need to have parallel rank, if their Managing Director is coming to a meeting, you better have your Managing Director there too, or at least someone you can fool them into believing is a Managing Director. Someone higher or lower makes things uncomfortable and ineffective.

I've done some soju-slamming and karoke singing with them and while some of them can drink, they were pretty clever about tag-teaming us in a drinking session. They politely poured a shot for themselves and for you to drink, repeated a few times, then excused themselves and another coworker slid in next to you and treated you to another three or four shots. Repeat. They did this so effectively to our team that it had to be choreographed.

They really loosened up after a few drinks. Its the one time they would let down the strict hierarchy and socialize with those above and below them. There was one Korean guy who didn't drink. I didn't realize this until after a few of these outings. He would get as silly as the rest of the actual drunks, but it was just a release. He wasn't really faking, just going along with the moment. Nice people for the most part, but the cultural details really mattered, especially with the ones who hadn't spent much time in the West.


What did you think of soju? The thing I always found was that since the alcohol content is lower you could sit and do shots for longer than an hour with out being wasted.........but, whoo boy, would it sneak up on you. And it was sooooo cheap. Did they throw off soju in the neck? Rumor was that it had formaldehyde in it. Not sure if that's true but we did it nonetheless

Here's the shit in all its mid-1980s glory

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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby Mud Bug » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:28 am

Gaylord residents — and the county board — want members of Sigma Alpha Mu and Sigma Delta Tau criminally charged for the damage caused at Treetops Resort during a wild ski weekend

GAYLORD – They bashed in ceiling tiles, smashed exit signs, kicked doors off their jambs and urinated on carpeting, leaving a stench so bad that commercial air scrubbers had to be brought in. A 20-yard Dumpster filled with destroyed furniture, beer cans, food and other trash couldn't contain all the debris.

Three weeks after about 120 members of a University of Michigan fraternity and a sister sorority went on a wild weekend party rampage at the Treetops Resort, the northern Michigan ski resort is still cleaning up as it tries to get back to normal. The damage to 53 rooms totaled about $100,000
.

Sigma Alpha Mu apologized for the damage caused by its members and those of Sigma Delta Tau during the Jan. 17-18 stay, but the townsfolk in Gaylord near the ski resort are enraged. They want the students who caused the damage to pay — and more than just financially.

"I think it would be a real life lesson for them to graduate with a felony and see how hard it is to get a job," said Becky Nelson, a bartender at the Bearded Dogg Lounge in downtown Gaylord, whose daughter attended the university. She said locals expect the parents of the students will pay for the damage because "if they're in a fraternity, they've got money."

A state police investigation continues. The Otsego County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution by a 9-0 vote demanding prosecution to the "fullest extent of the law."

"People really feel violated about what happened," said Paul Beachnau, the county commissioner who proposed the resolution and the executive director of Gaylord's chamber of commerce. "Gaylord's a hardworking community in northern Michigan, and we've always been a welcoming community to visitors for years and years."

Sigma Alpha Mu Michigan chapter President Joshua Kaplan has said members "are embarrassed and ashamed of the behavior." He said the chapter "accepts full responsibility" and will pay for the damage and cleaning costs.

Drilling the door jambs

Two weeks after the havoc, crews worked feverishly to accommodate Treetops guests arriving for Super Bowl weekend.

Trash bags full of dusty ceiling-tile particles and wood debris lined hallways at the inn, a rectangular building a short drive from the resort's main offices. About 2,000 pounds of laundry had been washed, said Jamie Hicks, an operations manager with Servpro.

"With all the damage that was done there, and the booze and all the fluids, you don't want to take a chance with what did or did not have bodily fluids," he said.

The restoration company — known for its work after fire and flood disasters — had up to 20 people per day working for about a week and a half. Hicks said it's the worst vandalism he has seen in 16 years in the industry. Doors were torn off kitchen cabinets, holes were kicked in drywall, picture frames were taken off the wall and smashed, wallpaper was torn off and furniture was broken. He said it appeared a bat was used to bash the ceiling tiles.

A worker was drilling door jambs back in Jan. 30, and staff warned a reporter to watch for wood on the carpet as he entered one of the newly reopened rooms after being sent up the stairwell marked, "Sorry, this area is closed for remodeling." By evening, management said all but three units had been reopened for guests, most of whom appeared to be families with young children.

There were no partying college students, but children could be heard running and shrieking playfully down the long hallways. Three suites at the end of one hallway were secured with a shiny, metal chain connected to a door handle.

The Alpine chalet-style building with wood paneling and green and purple carpets appears somewhat dated but includes amenities such as free Wi-Fi and flat-screen TVs (which, management said, were spared from the maelstrom). Brackets with no picture frames could be seen along the off-white hallways, and some doors still had dents and scratches.

Treetops Resort manager Barry Owens said other guests at the resort on the weekend of the destruction had complained about noise and offensive language coming from the area where the students were staying.

"We had conversations with these folks on Saturday, with the expectation that they were going to keep quiet and behave themselves," he said. "And then, somehow it just kind of escalated and took off."

Michigan State Police were called and escorted the students off the property in their chartered buses. Owens said he has since received verbal and written apologies as well as "a good-faith payment" toward repairs. But he wants criminal charges pressed.

"It wasn't like they made a mess and knocked over some beers," he said. "I mean, there was malicious destruction of property."

He said the damage was contained to the rooms and hallways. The inn has a pool and hot tub, along with an arcade and an office, but these were left intact. Owens said the affected area represents about 22% of rooms at the sprawling resort, which consists of several buildings across a hilly area.

The ski resort serves as a local hangout for many of the 3,600 residents of nearby Gaylord. Its relatively small ski area includes 23 trails on 80 ski-able acres served by five lifts, according to MTN Advisor, a skiing website. The resort also offers a spa, other winter activities and golf in warm months.

Owens said he continues to believe the wild group was an exception, but he'll nonetheless be more cautious about renting rooms to college groups in the future.

On campus

The mayhem wasn't especially surprising to some U-M students approached by a reporter last week on the Ann Arbor campus.

"I don't really know why a ski resort lets them come in the first place," said Matt Westerman, 20, a junior majoring in computer science who isn't in a fraternity. "I know that they cause damage every year when they go. That part wasn't surprising. I'm just surprised that other people were surprised by it, if that makes sense."

Ryan Vanslyck, 19, a sophomore majoring in business administration who is in a fraternity not involved with the ski trips, said sometimes "stuff like this happens" when students party and that they're paying a price for "overplayed" news media coverage.

"I feel like, obviously, they should pay for it," he said. "I feel like they should get a little bit of a slap on the wrist. But ultimately, I feel like they're being penalized a little bit."


The Sigma Alpha Mu fraternity and Sigma Delta Tau sorority were suspended by their national organizations; four other Greek-life organizations also were suspended after a similar incident that same weekend at Boyne Highlands, an hour away from Treetops, although the reported damage there was considerably less.

University spokesman Rick Fitzgerald said sanctions vary, but Sigma Alpha Mu had the most stringent: no charity events, no official meetings and no organized parties. Otherwise, the students continue to live in the house and attend class.

Chelsea Mervenne, 22, a graduate student who isn't involved with Greek life, said the behavior isn't normal for fraternities or sororities. But what happened perpetuates a stereotype that U-M students "have no regard for money because they've always had everything handed to them, have never worked for anything," she said.

"They should pay for it and be treated like anyone else who would do that," she said. "If that means criminal charges are pressed, then sure."

Students who answered the door at the Sigma Alpha Mu and Sigma Delta Tau houses declined requests for comment Wednesday.

'The adrenaline'

Not-yet-fully-developed brains, mob mentality, sleep deprivation and alcohol: These are among factors that can spiral a good time into a cyclone of destruction, said Dr. David Rosenberg, chairman of the department of psychiatry at Wayne State University.

"You're less inhibited, and your impulse control gets worse," he said. "The fun is in doing this and pushing the envelope, the adrenaline. And when you get caught, it's pretty awful."

Mervenne and others interviewed for this report said the extent of damage was tough to believe.

"Even if you were drinking a little, I don't understand how something that devastating could happen," the U-M student said.

Beer and liquor bottles littered the rooms at Treetops after the students left. Heavy drinking and the excitement of being on a trip with a group easily result in less sleeping, Rosenberg said. One person starts destroying things, and soon others are pushing the envelope. " 'How cool am I? (Look) what I can do,' " he added.

More details of how this escalated are expected to be released if the Michigan State Police investigation results in criminal charges. Meanwhile, people who dealt with the fallout at the resort said it doesn't appear there was a fight or some other reason for the mayhem.

The same weekend as the mayhem at Treetops, 12 condo units at nearby Boyne Highlands sustained about $30,000 in damage during a stay by about 120 students from four U-M fraternities and sororities. It hasn't yet been revealed whether there's a connection, but the mess was similar: broken furniture, holes in drywall, soiled carpeting and more.

Several of those units are privately owned, and there were additional losses from not being able to rent the rooms during peak ski season. All repairs were complete by the end of January. In this case, letters of apologies also were sent by the Greek organizations involved.

They also sent flowers to Boyne Highlands President Mike Chumbler, but he said the gesture was "not very impactful. What am I supposed to do, pass them along to the owners?"

Party on

The fraternity and sorority settings in both situations likely exacerbated the group-mentality of the situations, Rosenberg said.

"You never know," he said. "There can be good kids otherwise who get caught up in the group process that they'd never ever do in a million years without that group mentality."

And the development of the brain's prefrontal cortex, where impulses are reined in, doesn't complete until a person's late 20s or later.

"If we all look back at our thinking when we were 19 or 20, many of us has a cringe factor," he said.

Vanslyck, the 19-year-old college student, said that for people not facing a criminal investigation, the destruction is "just funny to talk about ... But I'm sure for them, it's not quite as funny."

He said buzz on campus regarding the incident has since died down, but the college students party on.

Partying is "very important; that's where a lot of college experiences come from," he said. "I feel like it's a vital part of college and hopefully continues."


http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m ... /23050399/


I'm somewhat surprised this story still has legs. These kids come from circles of power and influence. You know how that usually goes.

19 year old Ryan (future member of Congress?) captures the UM fraternity mindset perfectly:

....shit happens.
....the press overplays it.
....if you weren't one of us, you're against us.
....we will pay for the mess (or our rich parents will).
....now leave us alone and stop asking questions.
....and don't expect us to change.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby The Conscience » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:42 pm

They also sent flowers to Boyne Highlands President Mike Chumbler, but he said the gesture was "not very impactful. What am I supposed to do, pass them along to the owners?"


What a nice touch-- hey, sorry about the $30,000 in damages. Here's a tulip arrangement to show we're not bad people....

One would think these incidents would spark debate in high academia about the Greek system in general, as in maybe the whole thing is an antiquated idea which has outlived its time. In addition to the many well-documented and recent situations at frat houses involving abuse, rape, even death, doesn't the whole notion of exclusive grouping (white frats, black frats, Jewish frats, etc) run contrary to the modern campus ideals of diversity and inclusiveness? With the exception of Lambda Lambda Lamdda (the multicultural frat for dorks in Revenge of the Nerds), isn't the college Greek system one of the last real bastions of institutional segregation in America?

Also, the myth of Greek philanthropy has long been debunked as a front. Who raised 350K for a man without a car? Not Biff and Tad at Tau Kappa Epsilon Kappa Epsilon....
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:12 pm

Teens and young adults running wild destroyed Detroit's place on the role of livable cities. Ask Steve Utash and before him the decent folk of all backgrounds who felt compelled to shake the dust of the Motor City from their sandals and leave it behind. So, one torn up resort is trumped by the need to fortify 100, 000 homes. Having said that, these college kids should know and act a ton better than they did. I cannot see the school having grounds to impinge upon the members' freedom to associate , but there's nothing that should stand in the way of the resort going after the organizations and their officers for damages: the resort should be made whole and then some, and the officers of the frats should be at the forefront.

My brother was an officer in an engineering frat way back when, and he resigned the post when he learned that he and others would be personally liable in case of shit going down. A kid went on to die driving home drunk from one of their parties so my brother's move was wise. These UofM frat guys should be made to feel the same.

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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby vlad the impaler » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:20 pm

Partying is "very important; that's where a lot of college experiences come from," he said. "I feel like it's a vital part of college and hopefully continues."


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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby guest » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:39 am

Mud Bug wrote:I'm somewhat surprised this story still has legs. These kids come from circles of power and influence. You know how that usually goes.


No surprise here. Call it shadenfreude, the crab effect or whatever you like but there's no shortage of proles who love to hear of the problems and shortcomings of the privileged (especially if the privileged are represented by some pussy faced Justin Bieber-looking twat like the punk shown in that video). No amount of money or influence will change that. Personally, I think this whole pile of millenials or whatever they call themselves is a lost generation. The frat thing just makes for a better story.
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Re: Which is better: UM or MSU?

Postby higgs1634 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:29 pm

The Conscience wrote:One would think these incidents would spark debate in high academia about the Greek system in general, as in maybe the whole thing is an antiquated idea which has outlived its time. In addition to the many well-documented and recent situations at frat houses involving abuse, rape, even death, doesn't the whole notion of exclusive grouping (white frats, black frats, Jewish frats, etc) run contrary to the modern campus ideals of diversity and inclusiveness? With the exception of Lambda Lambda Lamdda (the multicultural frat for dorks in Revenge of the Nerds), isn't the college Greek system one of the last real bastions of institutional segregation in America?

Also, the myth of Greek philanthropy has long been debunked as a front. Who raised 350K for a man without a car? Not Biff and Tad at Tau Kappa Epsilon Kappa Epsilon....

they are voluntary membership societies and agree to abide by university rules that all clubs must abide...it that really "institutional segregation"? They are social clubs. They aren't tax payer funded or part of the university. If there weren't fraternities, then whatever groupings replaced them would be engaging in this. I mean, if you want to party and act like a fool any night of the week and riot when a sports team either sports really well or sports really badly...you can always live in Cedar Village. These are entitled brats (who happen to be in the same club) acting like entitled brats. Banning fraternities isn't going to remedy this anymore than tearing down Cedar Village will stop couch burning.

The problem is that it's accepted that College is supposed to be a 4...or 5 ...or 6 year raging party.
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