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Crazy White People

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:13 am

Tea Bag wrote:
My friend explained that if his son knows this code, he'll have a six-figure job waiting for him after high school, no need for a day of college. Yeah but what fun is that, I said.


I'm sure that whatever skill is picked up this summer won't hurt, but I can also assure you that there are no six-figure jobs out there just begging for 18-year old gamers. It may be that there are grunt jobs to be found, but gigs that pay better than ten or 14 an hour will require credentials, a portfolio, and experience.

A good guess is that 99% of those who are dreaming of awesome careers in game design and purely creative pursuits will, if they even land in the field, are going to end up doing the equivalent of production work under the direction of a creative director who tolerates no deviation from the plan. In the world of graphic arts everyone begins with the belief that they're going to be Walt Kelly or Stan Lee, and instead they end up writing copy for junk mail or building out websites using visual assets staged and shot so far away they may as well as have come from Mars. It's fun to dream and I wouldn't stamp too hard on any youngster's ambition, but maybe whisper to the father that he should be looking into art school or industrial design as a fall-back plan.

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby Roquefort Robert » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:40 pm

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:
Tea Bag wrote:
My friend explained that if his son knows this code, he'll have a six-figure job waiting for him after high school, no need for a day of college. Yeah but what fun is that, I said.


I'm sure that whatever skill is picked up this summer won't hurt, but I can also assure you that there are no six-figure jobs out there just begging for 18-year old gamers. It may be that there are grunt jobs to be found, but gigs that pay better than ten or 14 an hour will require credentials, a portfolio, and experience.

A good guess is that 99% of those who are dreaming of awesome careers in game design and purely creative pursuits will, if they even land in the field, are going to end up doing the equivalent of production work under the direction of a creative director who tolerates no deviation from the plan. In the world of graphic arts everyone begins with the belief that they're going to be Walt Kelly or Stan Lee, and instead they end up writing copy for junk mail or building out websites using visual assets staged and shot so far away they may as well as have come from Mars. It's fun to dream and I wouldn't stamp too hard on any youngster's ambition, but maybe whisper to the father that he should be looking into art school or industrial design as a fall-back plan.


You realize that there's more to computer programming than games and game design, right? A kid that masters several programming languages and has a little experience coding can most certainly start out at 100k. It's not likely and they would have to bust their ass during high school it is most certainly possible.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby thunderstruck » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:24 am

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:It's fun to dream and I wouldn't stamp too hard on any youngster's ambition, but maybe whisper to the father that he should be looking into art school or industrial design as a fall-back plan.

It's probably just the grumpy old man in me, but having art school as a fall-back plan doesn't make the initial plan seem too viable.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby guest » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:39 am

thunderstruck wrote:
frank - up in grand blanc wrote:It's fun to dream and I wouldn't stamp too hard on any youngster's ambition, but maybe whisper to the father that he should be looking into art school or industrial design as a fall-back plan.

It's probably just the grumpy old man in me, but having art school as a fall-back plan doesn't make the initial plan seem too viable.


Every year CCS puts on a show of student work, four or five floors of the Taubman Building (cross to Let's Name it After a Convicted Felon) jam packed with pictures, furniture, ceramics, clothing, bullshit conceptual constructions and more. It's really overwhelming, and it leaves me thinking that there's another crop of a few thousand dreamers who will never be on top of their student loans.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby Tea Bag » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:16 am

Is a college degree a lost cause these days?
By Brian Dickerson, Detroit Free Press Columnist

It’s among a shrinking list of things on which people across the political spectrum agree: A liberal arts degree no longer cuts it in today’s global economy.

Gov. Rick Snyder has spent his first five years in office campaigning for a better “alignment” between what Michigan’s employers need and what its colleges and universities are providing. He’s fond of citing a Center for Michigan report that the state is “graduating 20% too few computer and math professionals, 14% too few health professionals and 3% too few engineers.”

Snyder’s concern is echoed by Republican peers such as Florida Gov. Rick Scott, who criticized his own state’s universities for producing too many anthropologists, and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who has proposed cutting funding for college majors that don’t equip graduates with the skills for high-demand jobs

Here in Michigan, Democrats have supported funding for community college programs tailored to the needs of employers and applauded Snyder’s proposal to bolster funding for skilled-trades training, agreeing that the latter offers many of those graduating a surer path to middle-class wages than a four-year degree.

Even President Barack Obama has poked fun at the humanities, observing in a 2014 speech that “folks can make a lot more, potentially, with skilled manufacturing or the trades than they might with an art history degree.”

Obama later insisted his “glib” comment wasn’t meant to throw shade on liberal arts majors. But it reflected an emerging consensus that U.S. colleges and universities are failing to provide many students with the skills they need to succeed in the 21st-Century workplace.

But should a perfect match between employers’ needs and graduates’ skills be the ultimate objective of higher education in Michigan? Or, to put it another way: When is training workers for specific jobs the responsibility of colleges, universities and taxpayers, and when is it a cost that should be borne mostly, or exclusively, by employers themselves?

In a provocative essay for the Chronicle of Higher Education, Eric Johnson, a student aid administrator at the University of North Carolina, wrote recently that what leaders like Snyder call a new model for higher education “is actually a new model for worker training, one in which the workers bear the costs and risks for their own job-specific skill acquisition, while employers eagerly revise the curriculum to meet their immediate needs.”

At its root, Johnson argues, the diversion of limited educational resources to skills-based training is nothing more than a strategy for companies who want to “offload” the expense of training workers to perform specialized tasks they used to learn on the job.

“The trick,” he says, “is to relabel it education, then complain that your prospective employees aren’t getting the right kind.”

Return on investment

There’s something to this argument. Many industries have already figured out how to foist research and development costs on public universities, and there is certainly a powerful incentive to do the same thing with the recruitment and training functions.

But even if you buy Johnson’s thesis — I suspect he would argue that a lot of the educational initiatives that fly under the colors of “public-private partnership” are nothing more than corporate welfare — the fierce bidding for jobs probably compels states that want to be competitive to subsidize training costs for employers it seeks to attract.

Nor are employers and the elected officials who are anxious to placate them solely responsible for the new emphasis on job-specific training; many students and parents are equally skeptical about the continuing relevance of a liberal arts degree.

Nationally, tuition costs have increased at four times the rate of inflation and twice the pace of medicals costs, for nearly four decades. At the same time, wages have stagnated, and the number of entry-level jobs offering access to the standard features of middle-class life have shrunk. Is it any wonder those paying the freight are worried that a liberal education no longer offers a competitive return on investment?

But even if taxpayers agree that preparing students for high-paying jobs should be one of the modern university’s highest priorities, they should be cautious about allowing the immediate needs of large employers to drive long-term educational investments.

Companies, and even whole industries, come and go. The skills Widgetware requires today may not be the skills its workers will need when the market for widgets dries up.

Critical thinkers wanted

What are employers really looking for in today’s college graduates? Whenever CEOs visit the Free Press Editorial Board to pitch their latest initiative to make Michigan more hospitable to so-called job-creators, I ask them what their companies are looking for in an entry-level employee, and why so many of them insist that applicants have a bachelor’s degree. A surprising number find it difficult to articulate their rationale, and few mention mastery in specific fields, such as mathematics or computer science.

Many confess that they are merely looking for evidence that applicants can design and execute a four-year plan of any kind, whether it culminates in a degree in chemical engineering, theoretical physics or French literature.

Edgar Bronfman, the former CEO of Seagram, struck a similar theme in a 2013 essay for Inside Higher Education when he advised undergraduates hoping to succeed in business to not to squander their time in college acquiring knowledge specific to one job or field.

Instead, Bronfman said, undergraduates should focus on honing the one skill he deemed critical to success in any field: “how to evaluate raw information, be it from people or a spreadsheet, and make reasoned and critical decisions.“

Fareed Zakaria takes up Bronfman’s argument in his new book, “In Defense of Liberal Education,” which argues that eschewing a broad-based curriculum in favor of job-specific training is not only shortsighted, but “un-American.”

If there is a legitimate criticism of today’s colleges and universities, Zakaria writes, it’s not that they are providing instruction in the wrong fields, but that they are doing too little to provide students pursuing any course of study with the critical reading and decision-making skills that Bronfman and other employers prize.

The solution is not that more students need to major in marketing or engineering, Zakaria, argues, “but that their liberal education should be more structured and demanding,” with greater emphasis on reading and writing.

Zakaria, a native of India who emigrated to the U.S. to attend Yale University, also warns that “Americans should be careful before they try to mimic Asian educational systems, which are still oriented around memorization and test-taking.” He credits the Asian model for generating impressive test scores, but adds that it’s “not conducive to thinking, problem-solving or creativity” — the skills that have allowed American workers to maintain their productivity edge.

The citizen gap

However enlightened and forward-looking employers are in their aspirations, we ought to remember that American higher education wasn’t designed exclusively, or even primarily, to serve their needs.

The animating idea behind college for the masses was to train Americans to run their own society. Historically, equipping students to become better engineers and managers came after equipping them to be better citizens and voters.

So the assertion that Michigan’s colleges and universities aren’t producing enough engineers or health professionals (whatever a newly minted “health professional” looks like) isn’t the half of it. The more serious problem is that they’re producing too few voters, and too few Facebook users who can discriminate between a documented news story and an urban legend or Onion satire.

We won’t get higher education’s priorities right until we start aligning them with the needs of self-government as well as those of employers. Democracy is confronting its own talent crisis, and colleges and universities are an indispensable part of the solution.

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/colu ... /30322729/


My friend who is sending his kid to computer summer camp to learn coding so someday his boy will have a good job without a single college class would agree 1000% that a liberal arts degree is an antiquated notion. He dropped out of college and self-taught himself how to code, and twenty-years later is in management in the lucrative IT consulting biz. Because there is a dirth of techies in the domestic U.S. labor pool, his company hires boatloads of Indians and Pakis based solely on their certifications. "In this field, many people think because someone is Indian they are smarter", he once told me. "But they're just Indian." His larger point being India produces more viable job candidates because their education system has shifted towards teaching technology at an early age thereby flooding the workplace with competent young talent while our kids are fifth-year college seniors, finishing up their $115,000 lib arts education, pondering dropping another $60,000 on grad school before entering the job market with degrees in Sustainable Communities or 14th Century Asian History.

It makes perfect sense to me, and if someone has the natural aptitude for this stuff, by all means they should learn how to speak computer gibberish by an early age. I'd have gone nuts had I been forced down that path, and will take my liberal arts degree and corresponding career because spending thirty years toiling in front of a computer screen is my idea of Hell.

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby Doctor Detroit » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:34 pm

guest wrote:
thunderstruck wrote:
frank - up in grand blanc wrote:It's fun to dream and I wouldn't stamp too hard on any youngster's ambition, but maybe whisper to the father that he should be looking into art school or industrial design as a fall-back plan.

It's probably just the grumpy old man in me, but having art school as a fall-back plan doesn't make the initial plan seem too viable.


Every year CCS puts on a show of student work, four or five floors of the Taubman Building (cross to Let's Name it After a Convicted Felon) jam packed with pictures, furniture, ceramics, clothing, bullshit conceptual constructions and more. It's really overwhelming, and it leaves me thinking that there's another crop of a few thousand dreamers who will never be on top of their student loans.


Hey! Mine are paid off.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby middle aged female » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:58 pm

Doctor Detroit wrote:
guest wrote:
thunderstruck wrote:
frank - up in grand blanc wrote:It's fun to dream and I wouldn't stamp too hard on any youngster's ambition, but maybe whisper to the father that he should be looking into art school or industrial design as a fall-back plan.

It's probably just the grumpy old man in me, but having art school as a fall-back plan doesn't make the initial plan seem too viable.


Every year CCS puts on a show of student work, four or five floors of the Taubman Building (cross to Let's Name it After a Convicted Felon) jam packed with pictures, furniture, ceramics, clothing, bullshit conceptual constructions and more. It's really overwhelming, and it leaves me thinking that there's another crop of a few thousand dreamers who will never be on top of their student loans.


Hey! Mine are paid off.

I'm 2/3 of the way there, but I didn't graduate until I was 43 so I'll be paying after I'm dead.

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:13 pm

Work ethic will be the greatest determinant of career success, assuming one has brains and at least a sliver of social intelligence. Tech skills may or may not be central, but sure helps to have them. I'm a liberal arts grad and wouldn't change it if I could. First, I had a ball studying topics that interestwd me; hated to miss class, as in the case when my buddy and I stood in line for hours to get Aerosmith tickets ('86) and then I rushed over to school to catch the last half of a favorite class. Second, I've turned degrees in political science into a damn good living. I'd tell any young person, mine included, to study what you like bit (a) don't borrow more than you'll earn in a year, (b) make sure that you take more than the minimum amount of math, and (c) be fully prepared to never work in your field of study. A kid with a minor in statistics can pick up 50 grand easy, today. That's not much? The sky is the limit once you've had the first job and can take those skills almost anywhere in the US. Seems to me that the kids in trouble today believe that their bullshit degrees plus tepid work ethic will net a dream job. Sorry, but it won't.

A good friend is CCS grad but he's well into six figures because he can work. He told about a prof who 100% got how the world works: all of you complicated, introspective, pierced weenies come to class every day with 50 illustrations of anything at all. The crybabies fell to the side, fingers cramped from actual work. But the survivors learned how to produxe, to produce the way that working commercial artists are called upon to spin out concepts and give substance ro half-baked client blurtations.

There's hope. No reason to burn the books of Keohane, Lewin, von Mises, amd Dawkins. You won't use them much after school, but maybe that's why places like HFD exist.

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby frank - up in grand blanc » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: debt... fucking shit, the public schools have gotten expensive. Is it possible for a kid working at part-time jobs and living at home to have even a prayer of graduating from local schools in four years without debt? Feels like the answer is no. Back of the envelope math finds that about 40k will pay for a bachelor's degree with half of that earned at a community college.

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby Shark » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:18 pm

http://www.freep.com/story/news/2015/07/29/man-strangled-dogs-sanilac-county/30837945/

Check out that mugshot.

Dog strangler? Check.
Wonky eye? Check.
Disturbing facial crud? Check.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby meme » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:45 pm

frank - up in grand blanc wrote:A couple of thoughts...

First, my compliments to the architects. No apparent windows on the ground floor, thereby rendering this a defacto blockhouse and thus more defensible against marauders.


“I really like the location. It’s walkable to the Eastern Market and the Dequindre Cut.”

He's excited because he can walk to Eastern Market? Forget about the utter devastation on all other accounts, he can WALK to Eastern Market. Jeez. Isn't this like a Dresdener bragging about living close to a fire hydrant after the big RAF firebomb raid?



Do you remember this house? Periodically someone does something with it. For a refresher go to page 55 of this thread. Well someone did something with it.
Just go here: http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/13512/planned_airbnb_is_offbeat_but_an_authentic_detroit_experience_as_mlive_says
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby Mud Bug » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:21 pm

One-of-a-kind Airbnb to offer travelers authentic Detroit experience


It doesn't get anymore authentic Detroit than that area. Here's some marketing lingo to attract the intended demographics; the East coast hipsters, European vagabonds looking for high risk adventure, and scruffy trustbaby Millenials:

"Watch packs of feral dingo dogs roam in the front yard as wild-haired prostitutes stumble down the sidewalk shouting at passing motorists and passing clouds. Visit the historic site of the St. Aubin Street massacre, where 18 year old Tamara Marie Marshall (known as Honey to her friends), killed eight people in 1990. See the nearby burn piles that was once the famed Heidelberg Project. And partake in some of the best pheasant hunting this side of South Dakota."

It'll depend on demand, said McLeskey, but he hopes to rent the house for an average of $150 per night


He should make it a franchise. Next up: a brick tudor on Robinwood Street.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby Craig » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:33 pm

The Block House as an AirBnB? I've got a mental picture that looks like a scene out of a western: barricaded in their log cabin against a huge screaming war party the settler aims and fires his musket through a small hole while his wife frantically reloads his other weapon. Some people are just go through life asking for trouble.
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Re: Crazy White People

Postby middle aged female » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:41 pm

Craig wrote:The Block House as an AirBnB? I've got a mental picture that looks like a scene out of a western: barricaded in their log cabin against a huge screaming war party the settler aims and fires his musket through a small hole while his wife frantically reloads his other weapon. Some people are just go through life asking for trouble.

At least there in the wide open spaces so the war party won't have the element of surprise on their side.

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Re: Crazy White People

Postby meme » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:15 pm

Mud Bug wrote:
He should make it a franchise. Next up: a brick tudor on Robinwood Street.


Is there anything left on w. Robinwood Street? Street view is a little out of date...
I read about that fireweed city on w goldengate......there's another topic for this thread...
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