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The 13 UNDER Jeter:

Brett Waner Yount Gwynn Winfield Biggio Henderson Carew Brock Palmeiro Anson Boggs Kaline

gullycanyon wrote:The 13 UNDER Jeter:

Brett Waner Yount Gwynn Winfield Biggio Henderson Carew Brock Palmeiro Anson Boggs Kaline

Go to a Yankee game - or even better go to spring training - Jeter takes more grounders than anybody. Every day. At age 37. As a top 5 Yankee and top 5 shortstop of all time. Still. Before everygame. takes grounders non-stop. It is pretty remarkable. And for that alone, I have extreme respect for him.

Ya Mar wrote:

gullycanyon wrote:The 13 UNDER Jeter:

Brett Waner Yount Gwynn Winfield Biggio Henderson Carew Brock Palmeiro Anson Boggs Kaline

Go to a Yankee game - or even better go to spring training - Jeter takes more grounders than anybody. Every day. At age 37. As a top 5 Yankee and top 5 shortstop of all time. Still. Before everygame. takes grounders non-stop. It is pretty remarkable. And for that alone, I have extreme respect for him.

Hell, he's got 75 hits in 52 games this season and, even if he plays around 140 games this season he'll be close to 200 hits when he finishes this season. He's not going to catch Pete Rose, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for him to finish his career at 40 fifth on the all-time list behind just Rose, Cobb, Aaron and Musial.

The Suburban Avenger wrote:

Ya Mar wrote:

gullycanyon wrote:The 13 UNDER Jeter:

Brett Waner Yount Gwynn Winfield Biggio Henderson Carew Brock Palmeiro Anson Boggs Kaline

Go to a Yankee game - or even better go to spring training - Jeter takes more grounders than anybody. Every day. At age 37. As a top 5 Yankee and top 5 shortstop of all time. Still. Before everygame. takes grounders non-stop. It is pretty remarkable. And for that alone, I have extreme respect for him.

Hell, he's got 75 hits in 52 games this season and, even if he plays around 140 games this season he'll be close to 200 hits when he finishes this season. He's not going to catch Pete Rose, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for him to finish his career at 40 fifth on the all-time list behind just Rose, Cobb, Aaron and Musial.

Another amazing thing, although no Ripken, the guy has missed about 35 games in his career due to injury. Molitor, on the other hand, missed about 400. Something to be said about always being there, I suppose.

Hell Yes, there's a lot to be said for "always being there."

And Molitor was indeed the guy who I was thinking about when I posted that list, which is why I was so pleased to find the pic I posted with it.
Molitor was so great, and he seemed like such a "gamer," himself, that I gotta figure that it bugged him: Dang!! I did so good!! Why the hell did I have to be injured so much?!!??
Or, maybe he was a quasi-malingerer who was so egotistical that he couldn't stand the idea of presenting himself at anything less than his best, and sat out games that other guys would have played.
Well, whatever. Jeter-- certainly a vessel of robust ego, himself-- is a remarkable athlete, and while it may be difficult to warm up to him (he is a goddam Yankee, after all,) anyone who loves the finer aspects of baseball would have to agree that it is impossible to not respect him.

And that bit, about the grounders, that Ya Mar cited? Yeah, I'll just bet that he does. It fuckin' shows, too, and I think about him every time I see another player try to do that shit Jeter does where he somehow combines a catch, a pivot, a jump, and a throw... and not only throws out the runner but makes it look goddam easy.

Asdrubal Cabrera seems like he's a Disciple of Derek, in that way, and he's kinda OK at it, but it is very, very unlikely that he will ever be able to consistently pull it off with the easy, almost casual grace with which Jeter executes it on a regular basis, and the difference is probably the very work-habits cited by Ya Mar.

I am a real hard-nose about not wearing duds emblazoned with designer logos, self-promoting trademarks, insignia, etc.
The exception, of course, is Tigers stuff, and the idea of wearing something with another baseball team's symbol or player-name is, for me, pert'near unthinkable.
Excepting Derek Jeter. When a friend was travelling to New York and asked me what I would like as a souvenir, I asked for a Yankees Jeter t-shirt, and he brought me a navy-blue one with the classic "NY" symbol on the breast and "JETER 2" on the back.
I never wore it during any baseball season-- a dignified motherfucker like me has to stubbornly cling to some standards, goddamit-- and, truth to tell, I later assigned it as a "permanent loan" to my delectable, but intolerably Yankee-loving, paramour, but the very fact that I own it is, considering my truly hard-core allegiance to the Tigers, also quite remarkable.

But not as remarkable as the man himself.
Even when he is displaying that shit-eating grin, or doing that annoying thing where he thrusts up his open palm after a slide, we are Lucky Dogs, to be on-hand to witness the athleticism & artistry of Derek Jeter.

On the subject of "gamers," look up Paul Konerko's career stats when you get a minute. The guy might get his name on the HOF ballot when he retires but almost certainly won't get in but 500 homers and 1,500 RBIs are reachable if he plays into his early 40s (he'll be 37 at the start of next season).

We were at Chicago's opening day against the Tigers in April and my friend is looking smarter and smarter by the day: The White Sox, top to bottom, aren't going to scare anyone with their lineup but they hit well with men on base and are a stellar defensive team. The pitching staff is tied with Texas for the lowest WHIP in the AL. They're a few hundredths of a point behind the Yankees in overall fielding percentage and have committed just 25 errors this season. They're also in the upper third in the AL in total runners stranded.

Fun team to watch so far.

I think very highly of Paul Konerko. I take on a considerable load of conflicted stress due to his working his trade for one of the Tigers' toughest divisional rivals.

I am alongside SA's take, in that if Konerko plays until he is about 40, he is on track to compile stats that will make him a commendable selection for the Hall of Fame. (That ain't what SA wrote, but he cited the "until 40" part.)
You guys poke at me about the Gully List, but I think you've noticed that it does, in fact, usually separate the wheat from the chaff (usually about 1/2 as much wheat as chaff *ahem*,) and Konerko's name is one of the few that I find myself to be writing with great regularity. In recent years, he has spent plenty of time near its top.
He has nearly 800 XBH (Extra-Base Hits,) with 407 HR's and 377 Doubles. (8 Triples; not a Konerko thing. With his 9 SB's, Paul runs only slightly better than Gully.)

I remember, because I was buying lots of Bowman baseball cards at the time, that he was a big-time prospect. The Dodgers gave him away almost immediately to the Reds, who traded him to the White Sox for Mike Cameron. As the saying goes, "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

Paul is Polish (father) & Italian (mother.) Speaking as a former Catholic school boy, although Paul is young enough to be my kid, that kinda makes him a homeboy, for me, and Irish Gully will resist promoting any conclusion that he probably has a dull-witted, but well-fed, sire.

I dig the guy, though, and I respect him. He's one of those guys who doesn't record jaw-dropping numbers, but who consistently has (very) good-to-great seasons. (His OPS has surpassed .900 four times.)
I think he is greatly under-appreciated by the fans-at-large, and the bit of research which I did in order to put this post together did not illuminate the reasons for that. He has been quite consistent; his stat-sheet displays peaks sans valleys.

A possible explanation is that he plays 1B, and while his numbers are generally terrific, they fall just short of the gaudier numbers posted by MLB's "premier" 1Bmen.

That same research further underscored his consistency by showing him to have about the same statistical percentage numbers, against the Tigers, as his standard numbers, although he has been a bit harder on the Tigers than against the other three intra-divisional rivals. (He has been rougher on the Yanks & Mariners than against anyone else.)

So, Suburban Avenger, thanks for bringing up his name. I've been meaning to write something about him for a little while now, and your mention was the push I needed.

Konerko actually gets a more "under-rated great" than you thunk. Every baseball guy loves him. But the same could not be said about Fred McGriff. Yet compare their stats. Do it. You will see 2 of the most statistically similar players - in fact the both have a 162 game average of 32, 102, .284.

It is (cheating aside) the same issue with Palmero - a long career of being the 4th or 5th best player at your position is not hall worthy. Or so they say. Unless of course you are Al Kaline or Carl Yaztremski, and you play your career in one uniform and come to represent a team. Had Damon stayed with the Royals for 18 years and put up the numbers that he did, I argue that he would be talked about more seriously as a HOF'er.

People who bounce around (Sheffield anyone?) have a much more difficult time with the Hall than people who are recognized as a certain team for their career. Most people have forgetten that Ozzie Smith was a Padre for a couple of years. He is a cardinal. Had he been a Red and a Met and a Blue Jay as well, I am pretty certain he would not have been in the Hall.

Anyhow, I love Jeter. Dino Ebel, the Angels infield/3b coach, is the person who 1st told me about Jeter's work ethic. And I have since noticed it every time have have the priviledge to watch #2 warm up. And that story is the one I use to get me son to the field first and keep him their last. Not because I have any dillusions he is going to be a MLB player, but because that ethic is one of greatness. It is one that I do not possess and did not during my playing days in any sport. Lacking it is why I hit the driving range and not the putting green (and why I am still a 15 handicap, although on any given day I can shoot a 77).

Blah blah. I know TLDR. But it is in Gully's thred so I figured that is par for the course.

Damn right.
This thread was whipped up for me by HFD's David Hall (who I have not run into, here, recently.) It's all about the short essays, the rambling expositions, the extended commentaries.
That's why I figure if one opens this thread, one should expect to do some reading, and I encourage you guys to join me in sharing your thoughts & observations on the sport that some of us love.

Back by my refusal to acknowledge the lack of popular demand...

The Gully List
AL (through June 10th)

1. Hamilton TEX 51.5
2. Cabrera DET 42.5
3. Dunn CHI 41.5
4. Bautista TOR 41
5. Kipnis CLE 41
6. Jones BAL 39.5
7. Ortiz BOS 39
8. Encarnacion TOR 38.5
9. Granderson NY 38.5
10. Willingham MIN 38
11. Kinsler TEX 38
12. Fielder DET 37

gullycanyon wrote:Damn right.
This thread was whipped up for me by HFD's David Hall (who I have not run into, here, recently.) It's all about the short essays, the rambling expositions, the extended commentaries.
That's why I figure if one opens this thread, one should expect to do some reading, and I encourage you guys to join me in sharing your thoughts & observations on the sport that some of us love.

but what say you of my brilliant insight?

gullycanyon wrote:Back by my refusal to acknowledge the lack of popular demand...

The Gully List
AL (through June 10th)

1. Hamilton TEX 51.5
2. Cabrera DET 42.5
3. Dunn CHI 41.5
4. Bautista TOR 41
5. Kipnis CLE 41
6. Jones BAL 39.5
7. Ortiz BOS 39
8. Encarnacion TOR 38.5
9. Granderson NY 38.5
10. Willingham MIN 38
11. Kinsler TEX 38
12. Fielder DET 37

What about the NL?

D-Day wrote:

gullycanyon wrote:Back by my refusal to acknowledge the lack of popular demand...

The Gully List
AL (through June 10th)

1. Hamilton TEX 51.5
2. Cabrera DET 42.5
3. Dunn CHI 41.5
4. Bautista TOR 41
5. Kipnis CLE 41
6. Jones BAL 39.5
7. Ortiz BOS 39
8. Encarnacion TOR 38.5
9. Granderson NY 38.5
10. Willingham MIN 38
11. Kinsler TEX 38
12. Fielder DET 37

What about the NL?

What's this "NL"?

Roquefort Robert wrote:

D-Day wrote:

gullycanyon wrote:Back by my refusal to acknowledge the lack of popular demand...

The Gully List
AL (through June 10th)

1. Hamilton TEX 51.5
2. Cabrera DET 42.5
3. Dunn CHI 41.5
4. Bautista TOR 41
5. Kipnis CLE 41
6. Jones BAL 39.5
7. Ortiz BOS 39
8. Encarnacion TOR 38.5
9. Granderson NY 38.5
10. Willingham MIN 38
11. Kinsler TEX 38
12. Fielder DET 37

What about the NL?

What's this "NL"?

The AL divided by 2

Carlos Gonzalez is the NL leader, but is a little bit behind Hamilton's gaudy total. More complete listing on the way.

Ya Mar: I have another rambling post writing itself in my head, and reflections on your reflections will be reflected.